Are we live right now? Yeah. What did you have to, like, fight for to become who you are today? Dentist during the day, business owner by night. It was all consuming. And I just want someone to give me a chance. Relocated with the hope that it would work. If someone you loved was sitting in this seat, what would they say, I hope he doesn’t forget this. It’s my occupation. It’s not who I am. And and who I am is a father and a husband. Worked myself into a hole, but I was so worried that if I delegated, it would look poorly on me. I wish I trusted that a little bit more and just enjoyed the ride. Patients who come to the practice should see the production, but they should not see the chaos behind the curtain. As a leader, we have to be be adaptable to that change. Some days you’re the forcep, some days you’re the tooth. Really realize that, yeah, be humble because you will get humbled. I am so excited to edit this because of the sound of your voice. Just so smooth. Right now, in this moment, what brings you joy? I am getting married in October and I told my fiance this was more exciting for me. I don’t think dentistry would be as fun as it was if we didn’t do this together. It’s really special when you’re able to see the impact that you have on others. Sure, that’s the sexy stuff. Everyday dentistry is still king.
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Nathan Wong, DDS
Dr. Nathan Wong gets candid about the pressures of practice ownership, finding balance, and how becoming a stronger leader helped him build a more sustainable approach to ownership.
It’s kind of the double edged sword of being someone who has worked hard through their life is you always have that potential in you. Right? It’s been a really hard habit to get into, but I realize how valuable it is. Dentist during the day, business owner by night. Life goes on. Push, push, push, push. Yeah, life goes on. Tell me a little bit about how you’ve been able to balance it. I feel like now I can focus on, you know, my vision for my life. If someone you loved was sitting in this seat, what would they say, I hope he doesn’t forget this or lose this. Yeah. If my wife was sitting right there, she would say Owning a practice can be rewarding and all consuming. Dr. Nathan Wong shares how he found balance, became a stronger leader, and made more room for what matters most. This is ReImagen from Imagen Dental Partners. Oh yeah, I guess you could go with three names, Nathaniel, Nathan, and Nate. And Nate Dogg. Yeah. My name’s Jay, and I can’t really shorten that. Let’s just It doesn’t get much shorter than that. Just yeah. And then there’s those fake J’s, like the Jason’s. Just Yeah. Just the letter J or yeah. They’re posers out there. Now when I do research on people, I can either Google them Which then I have to do a little research on my own, or I could cut that process in half, and I could go to ChatGPT or Claude, type in your name, and then a summarization of you will come up. So if I were to type in your name in one of those platforms, what would be the AI summarization of you? That’s a good question. I would say it would say Nathan Wong is a digital dentist, general dentist in San Luis Obispo. Oh, nice. Yeah. Focuses on restorative dentistry, implant dentistry, all aspects of dentistry, cosmetic dentistry. It’s kind of funny because I feel like all it would really say about me is I’m a dentist. And sometimes I think I’m a little bit more than just a dentist. There’s a little bit more to me than that. But For sure. I would say as far as what ChatGPT thought of me, it’d be very much about dentistry. Right? Yeah. So Yeah. Yeah. All the locations that you could be, why out there? I’ve been there before. It’s been a long time, and it’s a really cool place out there. Oh, it’s awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So I went to college, Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo. Nice. So went up there for school, and I would say most people that go there for school realize, oh, this is a pretty nice area. Yeah. And then they graduate and realize it’s kinda hard to find a job there. Yep. But luckily for me, I went to dental school, got into USC, went to SC, so was back in LA for a little while. Nice. But the second I graduated, got out of there and moved back to SLO. Yeah. Yeah. And I just really like it because it’s, you know, it’s kinda halfway between LA and San Francisco, but on the coast. So it’s not in the big city. Yeah. But not completely in the middle of nowhere either. Yeah. Plenty of fun stuff. So how long have you been practicing dentistry for? So I graduated dental school 2013. Okay. I had met a dentist when I was at Cal Poly. So we stayed in contact all through dental school. We always talked about me coming back and working for him, and then maybe someday in the future taking over for him. Yeah. So I started I moved right back after after SC. Went back to SLO in 2013, started working with, you know, this guy, my mentor. And then pretty quickly realized that, you know, he was ready to phase out, I was building up in the practice, so I ended up purchasing the practice from him in 2017, I’ve been there ever since. You’ve been the owner for almost ten years now. I guess so, yeah. Nice, congrats, man. One more year and you’re on team. That’s awesome. When you own your own business, it can be consuming. Absolutely. But yeah, I feel you. Yeah, I mean, I know it’s a different situation for you now, but it’s like, you’re doing the accounting, you’re doing the marketing, you’re doing the payroll, you’re doing everything. And like for me, same thing with my business. I’m still doing that. I don’t have as large of a team as you, but you know, I’m still kind of, you know, wearing so many hats and it be just creatively exhausting and mentally exhausting. And I try to avoid it as much as I can, obviously. But I’d love to hear a little bit about you from your nine years of owning your own practice. Just sharing a little bit about burnout, and we all experience it, and what you do when you do find yourself burning out, and then what you do to help avoid that. So, I mean, in the beginning, I mean, that’s one thing they don’t teach you in dental school is one, just how to run a business in general, right? They teach you how to do dentistry, but they don’t teach you anything about running a business. So when you first either buy a business or start your own, once it’s fully yours, it’s like all on the job training. In the beginning, you know it’s gonna be a lot of work, so you put your head down and you do it. And you take on all these different hats. You become the accountant, the HR department, you become all these different things. And you just think that’s normal because that’s kinda how things have to be done. But, yeah, that pressure, that weight, that responsibility eventually starts wearing on you. I would say it was for me, it was maybe three, four years into that. I realized, oh, this is like, it’s not getting any easier. Yeah. It just is getting more daunting, harder. You know, this you know, there’s other pressures from just the economic changes in the world. And, you know, with being in California, all these there’s always these compliance things. And, you know, it’s it it almost feels like you’re treading water because once you learn one thing, the whole situation changes. COVID happened. You know, it’s all these things that the world’s always changing. Right? So you’re always just feel like you’re just struggling to keep up. So a few years into that, I realized, yeah, like, something’s gotta change. And for me, what I tried to do, and I was able to at least pull some of that pressure off myself, was, you know, trying to train my staff, my team, starting to delegate more. And that helped for sure. But it never took away that just that pressure of being the owner, just knowing at the end of the day, everything still is riding on me. So, you know, I’d be at home and, yeah, I felt like I was I really told people I had two jobs, a dentist nine from eight to five and then from five to nine, maybe, you know, I was going home and doing all these business type things almost every single day. Yeah. Right? So I was a dentist during the day, business owner by night. It it was all consuming. It was just like that was my full time job 24/7. Had nothing outside of that. Yeah. Right? And then It’s really hard to disconnect after you get such a groove like that. Yeah. And even if you do find a moment where, okay, maybe I go home and, you know, maybe that day I don’t have to do anything business way wise, It doesn’t your brain doesn’t turn off to that. Right? There’s always this low level, at least, you know, ten, twenty percent of your brain that even with you’re just hanging out with your kids, hanging out with your wife, your brain’s still somewhere in there thinking over that stuff, right, it doesn’t go away even if you aren’t doing something right that second with it. So I realized at the end of the day, like, yeah, I can minimize things by, you know, delegating to my team, training my team better, but there’s only that only goes so far. You know, one thing I’ve been trying to practice myself when it to avoid burnout and to keep my priorities in line is, you know, my office is in my house, and I’ve got to build it like the way I want it. It’s like a really cool space. Definitely a vibe. But because I essentially work from home aside from production shoots, if my kids are coming home from school or if I’m, sadly, if I’m working on the weekend, anytime they come in the office and they’re like, hey, dad, do you wanna play with me? I’ll be like, I’ll drop what I’m doing and I’ll go do it. Good for you. You know? Yeah. I’ve been like, it’s been a really hard habit to get into, but I realize how valuable it is. It is good to set boundaries, right? Yeah. Like, as much as, you know, the work will be there. When you take a break and it’ll come back, it’ll be right there. Right? And that’s one thing that’s nice about dentistry is all that business stuff isn’t time sensitive as much as say sitting down with the patient. So, yeah, I think that’s very good advice is saying like setting boundaries, prioritizing your family, your kids, your wife, maybe your mental health, your physical health. So at least scheduling those things Yeah. Knowing that, you know, it’s kinda like that idea of, you know, when the plane, if the oxygen mask fall, you gotta put the oxygen mask on yourself before you try to help others. Yeah. Sort of the same thing, you know, put your oxygen mask on yourself versus your business. Yeah. Because it’ll always be there. You gotta you gotta stay sane and healthy too, right? So Yeah. And like, you know, it’s a good idea, but I every time I think about that, if I’m on a plane and if it’s, like, that’s the situation, I’m sitting next to my kids You know what you’re really gonna do. I’m gonna put it on them first. I’m not gonna put on me. You’re a good dad. I’ll be okay. I’m gonna put it on you. I’m like, Hold on, son. Give me a minute here. I’m not quite there yet. Yeah. And you know, one thing that’s interesting too is last year I turned forty, people were asking me to reflect on my life. And it’s like, Okay, let me reflect on my life. I noticed that three fourths of my career, I was definitely putting my career, like, upfront. Looks like, you know, it is a double edged sword. Like, I’m providing for my family. Of course. And I love what I do, and it can almost be an addiction too, being a workaholic, you know? But I saw, like, I was so stressed out with certain things. I remember working on, editing a project while my wife is asleep in bed. I have my laptop in bed, it’s like three in the morning, and I’m trying to meet a deadline. Yeah. But what fascinated me about it was I was remembering those moments of stress, but I don’t remember the project. I don’t remember what I was actually working on. I just remember being stressed out. You were stressed out. And it’s like, if I can’t even remember what it was, why am I worrying so much. How important was that thing, actually? Why am I stressing out so much? Why am I like push, push, push, push, push. Yeah. Life goes on, you know? Yeah. And now a quick word from Imagen Dental Partners. Leading a practice, taking care of a team, taking care of a family, and being that sole provider is an overwhelming weight that instills a quiet fear that no one talks about. You’re supposed to be the strong one, have it all together, be able to handle any stress that’s thrown at you. Post partnership, that the quality of time that I have with my family now is so much better than what it was five years ago. The time I spend with them now, I’m focused on them and on us. I’m not worried about did the supply bill get paid? Did the payroll get done? All those things are being taken care of whether by my team that’s been trained up or by individuals that aren’t even in the practice that are in Arizona helping me load those weights without carrying it by myself. Back to the show. You know, you had those two jobs, being a dentist all day and then you’re not at your practice anymore and you’re at home and you’re a business owner. Tell me a little bit about how you’ve been able to balance or I mean, even if you haven’t yet, like, what do you what like, ways that you’re trying to to balance it. Well, I mean, I think the biggest thing more than anything was, like I said, trying to delegate as much to my team and empower my team to take some of that off my plate. And yeah, before joining Imagen, I would outsource some of that to accountants, bookkeepers, paying people to do it. Then I would just have to stress out about the financial parts of it and having to pay for that. But then since joining Imagen, I mean, biggest change, honestly, was Imagen training my team because I didn’t even have the tools to train my team well enough to really take that stuff truly off my plate. I would try to delegate things to my office manager, say. But I was always still thinking of were they going to actually do it the right way or were they going to do it the way I would do it. It was almost like I was double checking their work anyway. Whereas after partnering with Imagen, they truly took that off my plate, not by Imagen doing it per se, but by them properly training my office manager to be a true office manager in the sense of truly being able to take that responsibility or a lot of those responsibilities off my plate. Yeah. Right? So in an interesting way, like, that has freed me up because now I don’t have to think about that. I know she can handle it. That has freed me up to then be a better leader for the rest of my team Where now I can delegate other things, like more clinical type things. So even in not just from the business side, you know, it’s taken away that, you know, after five o’clock kind of stuff with my office manager. But even the even the dentist stuff, eight to five, I’m able to train my team much better because I’m just a better leader because I’m I’m, you know, mentally freed up to focus on developing my assistants, my hygienists, my relationship with all of my team, our team morale in general. So it’s almost like everything has risen because of that. Everyone’s kind of, you know, developed together. And ultimately, that’s helped me avoid getting burned out, avoid all the stress and anxiety that I used to have. You know, it’s been quite helpful. I’ve talked to a lot of Imagen doctors, and I learn pretty quickly why some of the older doctors partner with Imagen. Sure. And it’s usually, you know, they’re ready to be done. Looking for an exit plan. Looking for an exit plan. But I wouldn’t put you in the category of the older doctors. Not quite yet. And I’m always interested in the doctors who are a little bit younger, and granted, you’ve had your practice for a while. Thankfully, yeah. I was very fortunate. Yeah. But I would love to hear what made you feel a desire to partner with Imagen. Sure. Yeah. At such a young age Yeah. And and still relatively early in your career. Yeah. So talking about your birthday, your fortieth, I’m turning forty in about a month. Nice. So, I’ve been doing some self reflection too, you know, hitting this kind of this milestone. And and I do realize that, yeah, I was very fortunate to land in a good practice, buy and and purchase a good practice pretty young. I realized, you know, a few years into that, starting to see all these signs of burnout, seeing just that, you know, my stress levels, my anxiety levels were just constantly rising and rising. And I would kinda push them down a little bit, but I could see the tide was just rising. Right? It was treading water and the and the tides would just keep rising above me. And, you know, me and my wife really had some heart to heart conversations about the fact that, like, I was really dealing with some mental health kind of stuff. Right? And I was kind of in denial for a few years and it just kind of kept compiling. And at a certain point, I kind of just hit a breaking point in saying, I realized that the trajectory I’m on, being a younger person, a younger doctor, a younger practice owner, that if I continue down this path, it’s hard to say I’m gonna reach the finish line, whether that’s retirement or whatnot. Right? Because I had no plans to retire anytime in the next twenty, thirty years. And I enjoy dentistry. I really love clinical dentistry. So the idea that I was, I kinda think of it I I felt like I was, like, running this marathon. You know, think about the next twenty years. To me, that was like a marathon. Right? It’s not the the finish line is not really in sight quite yet. Right? I was running this marathon, but I was running it at a sprinting pace. It didn’t seem like there was any way I could sustainably finish that race. Yeah. So I started looking at, you know, what options are there? Is you know, could I at first, before I even thought about partnering with Imagen or any company for that matter, I was more so thinking like, well, can I hire a consultant? Could someone come in and change the way I’m doing things, train my staff? And I kind of looked into that for a while and realized, what that’s really gonna do is just stress me out even more by paying somebody and not being sure about what kind of results we’re gonna get. And thankfully I had known several doctors who had already been partnered with Imagen and I had kind of seen their journey and I started to notice some changes in their lifestyle, their anxiety levels, their happiness levels and really, yeah, maybe there’s something to this. So started looking at it more and realized like, this is the right path. Because I also think that that’s kind of, you know, the beauty of Imagen is because it’s this partnership, it’s not necessarily an exit strategy. It’s not like a DSO that’s just trying to, you know, recapitalize and and make make all their money and get out of there. We’re very much thinking about the long term. Right? So I think it’s perfect for someone like me who has this long path to continue to go Yeah. Because I know they’re gonna support me all the way through that because that’s what their strategy is as well. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. That’s great, man. Yeah. Well, I’ve got one more question. Sure. And it doesn’t have to be dentistry related. Okay. It can be if you want it to be. Okay. If someone you loved was sitting in this seat Yeah. Right now Yeah. What would they say you’re doing really well Yeah. In life right now? Yeah. And then also, what would they say, I hope he doesn’t forget this or lose this? Yeah. I mean, I could tell you exactly what my wife would tell you. Yeah. If my wife was sitting right there, she would say, I am much more present in our relationship with my kids just in general. It’s great. I just have this, like, you know, this weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Yeah. And she can we I can tell. She can tell, like, I just don’t have this, again, this distraction that’s always just pulling me away from being where I am. I’m not just constantly thinking about, I’ve got one foot here and one foot at the dental office. So yeah, I’m just more present. I’m doing more with my family. I’m coaching my kids’ soccer teams and basketball teams, going to their practices. When I’m with them, I’m just with them. I’m not looking on my phone thinking about the email that’s coming through. I’m just with them. Right? So I think she would very much say, I’m doing a good job of actually being there and being present. And basically, you know, not to forget where we came from as far as like you said, it’s very easy to fall in this trap of being a workaholic because it takes a lot of work and effort and commitment to get to where I got as far as going through college, dental school, starting a business. I got that tendency in me. That’s kind of the double edged sword of being someone who has worked hard through their life is you always have the potential in you. So it could be easy to fall back in that trap with something else. But recognizing to be content, be happy with where you’re at. Yeah. Always be learning and pushing forward and and and growing as a person, but being intentional about that growth. Right? I feel like now I can focus on, you know, my vision for my life, my vision with my, you know, my wife and my kids and our family, what we want out of life. And I feel like I can actually pursue that with clarity and focus. Yeah. So Well then, I appreciate your time. Yeah. Thanks a lot. Thanks, Jay. Yeah. Thank you for taking the time to listen. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to us if you subscribed to the show or even shared it with someone who might enjoy it too. We’ll see you next time on ReImagened.
Jason Ford, DMD
Dr. Jason Ford shares how community, technology, and the right partnerships have shaped his career, and why continuing to grow without sacrificing clinical autonomy or what matters outside of dentistry has guided his approach to ownership.
Sure. That’s the sexy stuff. That’s awesome. That’s that’s great. You know, but everyday dentistry is still king. Let me tell you this. Just listening to you talk Yeah. I am so excited to edit this Because of the sound of your voice. Just so smooth and so… Appreciate that. Listen, I’m not a smart person. I just try to do what smart people do. You will always be humbled in dentistry. Some days you’re the forcep, some days you’re the tooth. Right now, in this moment, what brings you joy? What brings me joy, man? Dentistry can feel like you’re on an island, but it doesn’t have to. Doctor Jason Ford shares how community, authenticity, and the right partnerships helped shape his career and his life. This is ReImagened from Imagen Dental Partners. Is that too loud or anything? No. Did you find Alright. Usually freak out about these cameras and mics but I already know you’re I’m good. You’re natural. I feel alright. Yeah. Just don’t bother me. Okay. So I I love asking this question Yeah. For sure. Just to hit it off. Instead of being like, tell me about yourself. Because that’s the most annoying question. And usually people downplay it. But, if I were to sit here and Yeah. Type in your name in ChatGPT, what do you think the AI summarization of you would be? The AI summarization of ChatGPT? Yeah. So I think it would say, Jason Ford, we’re gonna say, Jason Ford is a dentist in Union, Kentucky. Yeah? Alright. Place is called Toothologie. We started the place, we’ll say, five and a half years ago Yeah. When I bought the office. And I bought the office because it was a mile from my house Okay. At the time. So I was working as an associate. I got a lot of good experience, you know, with the CEREC world and Dentsply Sirona products, which is how I met a lot of these partners here in the practice. And so, you know, when when I bought my office five and a half years ago, you know, we were fortunate enough to be able to grow it pretty significantly over that time, and kind of joining Imagen Dental Partners became one of those things that it was almost… I don’t want to say it was destined for me, but I think I knew that my path was going start moving that direction because Yeah. Everyone within the company I had already known. I’ve known a lot of the partners. I understand who the CEO is and what he did in dental education before Imagen Dental Partners. So Yeah. I think ChatGPT answer would be, yeah, dentist out of Union, Kentucky, but he’s into all this tech stuff, and I love social media. Yeah. Yeah. Dentist by Day, Tech Giant by Night. Yeah. Man, I can… Let me tell you this. Just listening to you talk, I am so excited to edit this because of the sound of your voice. Just so smooth and so… I appreciate that, man. Yeah. Yeah, man. That’s great. How long have you been practicing for? I’ve been pra… No, man. That’s that’s the one that’s gonna I age don’t you or anything. That one is starting to hurt right there. Yeah. This year is my fifteenth year in dentistry. Yeah. I graduated in 2011. Nice. As wild as that is. Yeah. So I did the GPR. First off, I went to University of Kentucky, dental school, graduated ’11. I did GPR right after that, 2012. Okay. And I’ve been working since. You know, I moved to Northern Kentucky, the area where I’m at, right after my my my GPR year and was working there. I met my wife there about six months later. Nice. And, you know, we’ve stayed, and now it’s home. You know, we got two beautiful children, you know, beautiful house, you know, we work two miles from the office. You know, all my son’s teachers and stuff, and Yeah. People in the community. So we see everyone every day that we treat. So it makes for a unique dynamic in our area where sometimes, yeah, it can be nerve racking because I see all my patients every and, you know, trying to be perfect in all of your your patient care and your treatment sometimes can wear on you, but the flip side of that is, yes, we see everyone every day, so everyone is friends of ours. Yeah. And it makes for a beautiful community relationship for us. First question, how old are your kids? How old are my kids? I got an eight year old son Nice. Who looks like he’s 11. Yeah. That is my… He’s my best friend. He’s my road dog. He’s he’s absolutely the best. Had to miss game one of basketball today. Oh, man. But no, he’s he’s he’s absolutely the best, and, you know, like I said, he’s my best friend, man. He’s he’s he’s the light. And then my my daughter is four years old, and she can basically do no wrong in my eyes. I never say no. So dads out there, if you have a daughter, you need to know that even at a young age, you’re probably being manipulated. Oh, my gosh. Just is, man. Yeah. I I never say no. My daughter turns 13 this year. Oh. And how, yeah. It doesn’t… It probably… It it… It’s all the same. I I say yes to her 99% of the time. Yeah, absolutely. My How can you not, man? My boys, like, you know, I love them just as much, but I find that I don’t say yes. Yeah, man. Sometimes you’re trying to like you’re trying to like guide them in a certain way, like like the girl, you’re just sitting there like, oh my goodness. Yeah. You want. Whatever you want. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, then when they act like they’re spoiled, you know, then I’m I’m mad and my wife’s like, well…: Nope. Well, feel free to say no sometimes.: Yeah.: Yeah. No, but they’re the best. They’re… I I love them so much. They’re they’re so excellent.: Well, I’d love to know why, of all the places that you could stay and build this community, and I definitely wanna talk about community, because it sounds like it’s very important to you. Yeah, absolutely. But of all the places, why Northern Kentucky? Because you said… Northern Kentucky. Why why Northern Kentucky? You could you could build a practice out in LA, I could be here in Scottsdale. You could be here in Scottsdale and you could own the market. But why why Northern Kentucky? So Northern Kentucky is kind of a… It’s kinda hard to say. It is it is it’s like a step child, Northern Kentucky. Okay. Kentucky doesn’t really include Northern Kentucky as part of Kentucky, it’s more a part of Cincinnati. And then Cincinnati and Ohio don’t wanna include Northern Kentucky. So we’re like we’re just like a little little island right there. That’s how Yuma is in Arizona. Yuma? Yuma is like way south. It’s like, is it like Mexico, California, Arizona? It’s Yuma. It’s just Yeah. That’s how Northern Kentucky is. So when you fly into Cincinnati, you actually land in Kentucky. Yeah. Okay. And that… That’s about where we where we live and practice, is right in there. Okay. And, you know, so I first moved up there strictly for a job, you know, but when you’re there, you realize it’s one of these places. One, it’s not crazy dental saturated. Affordability is… Yeah, sure, affordability is an issue for all of us now, but as far as an affordable place to live, that’s an affordable place to live. It’s not like New York. Yeah. It’s not LA or anything like that as far as the cost. And then, you know, being from Kentucky, you know, I’m two hours from my family as far as the drive. And then when I met my wife, her mom and dad and her sisters had just moved to the area too, you know. So we have family there, so that’s number one. And then once we started working in there, we started making friends in the area. We have a bunch of friends who are UK grads that I went to dental school with Nice. Who are, you know, are specialists, who are other dentists that, you know, we still refer patients back and forth, you know, whether it be, you know, as a GP practice, I still get referrals, you know, for sedation and stuff like that. But I have good friends who are oral surgeons and periodontists and and and endodontists and all this stuff, and so we have all this community of dentists that we all know each other. We all hang out with each other. Our kids know each other. Yeah. And it’s become more of a… Just lifestyle. We really really enjoy it. We’ve got green space, you know, we got grass, you know, we got white picket fences and all that. So it became one of those areas that you just really fall in love with when you’re there. Yeah. Yeah. That’s great, man. Yeah. I love that you have that. And like, I I’ve lived in Arizona most of my life. I lived here when… Or moved here when I was two. And I’m… I will say the first time I landed in Arizona, when I went to my first CDOCS course here, you know, over over at Spear. When I landed, I looked at my wife and I said, I could live here. Really? Yeah. The first thing I said when we were driving Yeah. From the airport to this hotel, you know, a few years ago. Because I was with my CDOCS stuff in Charlotte, and I was like, you know, let’s go have a vacation in Arizona. I landed, I was like, I could definitely do this. So I get excited coming here every time, because I like it here. I will say, it doesn’t sound like the white picket fence stuff that you have exists here. Maybe in like little pockets. Yeah. Yeah. But the, you know, Arizona is nice because we, our winters are spectacular. Absolutely. Our fall and our spring are spectacular. And yes, summer’s hot. It’s summer right now, and it’s like a 120 to… Yeah, we got pools everywhere. You got pools and you just go inside. Right? I have to tell my kids middle of the day on summer break, come inside. Yeah, a little while. Yeah, please, man. Because this one ten sometimes, yeah. But, no, I I I really have to say I do like an Arizona, man. So for sure. Yeah. But I I love that you have this community in in where you are because, you know, I feel like there are parts in Arizona where, you know, everybody’s kind of like this, and they’re all blah blah blah, but that’s like that’s everywhere too. When you find people that you can grow that community, it’s just, it’s so special. Yeah. And the more I talk to dentists about community, the more of either, one, they’re already locked in, like, a great community that they’re constantly growing, or two, they’re yearning for a community where they feel like they’re alone Yeah. And they want that community. Dentistry, you can feel like you’re on an island. Yeah. Very much so. You know, so I’ve been lucky enough to make friends in the business where, you know, I’ve had many ideas where, you know, I bounce things off of a lot of partners here, you know, before we were in business together, you know, just asking them stuff. Because a lot of people are more experienced than one than… Far more than I’ll ever be. And I always say this, you know, about myself, you know, people always laugh. I just say, listen, I’m not a smart person. I just try to do what smart people do. You know what I mean? And so that’s why I usually try to embrace technology or things like that, and I’ve been lucky enough to find mentors in the business over the years that have helped me, not just clinically, but also as far as the business goes. And so, yeah, dentistry can feel like an island, but it is important that you do kind of maybe find a core group of people that you enjoy, maybe working alongside, not necessarily with, but alongside. And I was lucky enough to find that, you know, with a lot of the the teaching and stuff that we’ve done over But also, same thing within Northern Kentucky, these are people that I went to school with, so we do have that community where we’re not necessarily on an island. And, you know, as far as community goes, you know, I was talking about, like, where I live, you know, I treat my friends and my neighbors, and, you know, my my son and daughter’s teachers, and my wife’s friends, and stuff like that. So dentistry is one of those kind of healthcare professions where it is very personal. I mean, you’re up in someone’s face. I mean Yeah. Let’s be honest. Some… Dentistry is not pleasant. Right. You know what I mean? So oftentimes, it is easier when you know the person, you know their life. These people are my children. They are friends of mine. I So think it makes kind of that build up on maybe some of these bigger treatment plans that people have been asking for for years, or they didn’t want to financially. When they see what it can do for them, and that I am also their friend, and I’m also looking out for their best interests, I do think it eases some of that maybe, phobia of dentistry that a lot of people have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The phobia of dentistry is a real thing. My daughter has a little bit of anxiety with Yeah, yeah, going to the dentist. Not my boy’s, other than mine. And, yeah, I think that’s That’s a big part of our practice, is the phobic patient. That’s why… I mean, we’ve been doing IV sedation for that reason, you know, for Yeah. I’ve been doing it for ten years, and as soon as I bought the practice, that was one of the first things that I brought in. Yeah. Because, I mean, you tell someone that they can sleep through their visits, know, it’s kind of an easy sell sometimes, man. Sure. People love it, I love it, but yeah, dealing with phobics and kind of that mindset sometimes can be difficult, but one of the most rewarding things in dentistry is, you know, in in our practice, we call them graduates. People that we had to sedate for treatment, and then when they come back, they’re like, you know what? I don’t think I need that. We’re pretty comfortable Yeah. If you can just do this kind of quickly, like with like a single crown or something like that. That right there, it’s a it’s a feeling that sometimes money can’t buy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So yeah, we call those people graduates, The phobics who got sedating and then all of a sudden, they’re comfortable with it. Yes. Yeah. And now, a quick word from Imagen Dental Partners. When you feel like you’re efficient, there’s a time of the only way I’m gonna make more money is to either charge more, work more hours. And I think what Imagen really helped us with is taking a fairly efficient office and streamlining it even more to the point where I I could work the same amount of hours and produce more or I could actually work one day less and produce more because we were scheduling properly, putting the right team members in the right spots. On your deathbed, you tell yourself, gosh, I wish I would have worked more. Nobody says yes to that. When I when I leave this earth, I don’t wanna be remembered as, oh, he was a great dentist. Like, that’s not my goal. But while I’m here, if doing that to the best of my ability allows me to get to be the dad and the stepdad and the husband that I wanna be, then that’s the purpose that I have is, you know, providing just great care to people and taking care of people. Because I think in in what we do, I don’t feel like we take care of teeth. I think we take care of people through teeth. Back to the show. Now, I… You know, I’m a filmmaker. Yeah, yeah. And Imagen is one of my clients. I have met many clients, like, some are hotels, some are, you know, car companies, and so it’s like, I have a lot of diverse clients. And in the filmmaking world, we have our own little filmmaking celebrities that if I were to start to bust out names, be like, I don’t know who that is, right? And so jumping into Imagen, over the last, like, five years, I’ve learned of some of these celebrity dentists, not like they work on celebrities, but they’re just like big in the community. The Meena Barsoums, you know, with the Rich Rosenblatt’s. Yeah. And I’ve learned that there’s also Jason Ford. I’m I’m not on the level No, are. When I… So when we’re doing this podcast and we’re talking to people, they’re like, Who are you doing? I’m like, Oh, we’re doing… You know, Shivi and Tony, Oh, of course, course. And I’m like, Are you doing Rich Rosenblatt? No, no, we’ve filmed them a ton. We’re doing Jason… Jason Ford’s like, Oh, yeah, that’s a good one to have. So, you have a reputation, you know? That’s awesome. That is good. Is good. Yeah. So, for you, when you started doing dentistry, did you ever feel like you would be able to have a reputation that where people Like, with that conversation I just had, is that something you strived for? That is not what I… This… If you if you’d have told me in dental school that this is where I was gonna be in my career at this point, I’d have said there’s there’s no way. For sure. There’s no way. You know, so Yeah. You had to think these are chance encounters that I’ve met some of these people with who, you know, when it comes to like Rich Rosenblatt, or Meena Barsoum, or Sam Puri, or, you know, Mona Patel Yeah. Shiv, some of these people, You know, I met these people doing, you know, CEREC dentistry when I was really starting to kind of direct my career a certain way. And, you know, with that, they were like my first CEREC trainers. And so, like I said, I tried to do what smart people do, so I saw what they were doing, and I saw that it was working for them. So that’s what I was trying to implement myself. And then with that, I just became friends with them over time. You know, we would hang out at conferences. I would go to their courses, and then lo and behold, that’s who people like that, you know, Darin O’Bryan, you know, some other good friends, they all like started kind of pushing me towards this kinda kinda lecture route, if you will, you know, giving courses on the side. And like with that, you know, I just started recording stuff, you know, and and, you you being a filmmaker, that’s what I… I hired a videographer. Same thing, and that’s what we did for years, and I would just talk about topics. For some reason, man, that stuff just started steamrolling, and that’s where that came from. It wasn’t like a planned thing to do. I was trying to just kind of work in my office and build it up, and I was doing social media just to attract patients, because that just became a marketing platform for me. And then with that, that’s where a lot of other opportunities and stuff came from. And I’m just happy that people enjoy it. Yeah. I never knew that it would be what it was today For sure. At all. Yeah. You know, you say for some reason it just started steamrolling, and just with my brief time with you and also hearing about you Yeah. I know the reason why, and it’s because, you know, anybody can be good on camera Yeah. And like, you definitely are good on camera from the social content I’ve seen, but there’s a sense of, like, authenticity that I get from that. Yeah, I appreciate that. And I people really do. People are really yearning for that in the world of social media. Yeah. Everybody’s fake online. I think people are really, like, they’re hungry for genuine conversations, like authentic conversation, like real… They want something real. Yeah. Yeah. I think a big thing, you know, with you saying that is, you know, my practice is nothing special. It’s really not. You know, I’m I’m I’m a GP gunslinger like a lot of people. Yeah. But, you know, you know, you see some of these practices on Instagram, or, you know, people making posts of all these crazy before and afters, and you got to realize that that is not every patient. Sure. You know? Sure, that’s the sexy stuff. That’s awesome. That’s that’s great. You know, everyday dentistry is still king. Know, you’re talking regular fillings, you’re talking clear aligner therapy. You know, solo crowns and root canals. Yep. Taking teeth out. That’s everyday dentistry. Yeah. That’s not sexy. And so I think people know that I’m just a GP. Yes. Sometimes I get those big cases in, and yeah, I will do my own before and afters. Yeah. But I think people realize that I’m a regular practice like they are, so I think that might be one of the reasons why we got a little bit of a following that we have. You know, because, you know, what we do, it’s attainable. Yeah. It’s not… You know, I’m not doctor Apa, even though I look up to everything that he does, and I follow his principles for cosmetic dentistry. Not everybody can do that. Yeah. Yeah. He’ll tell you that when you go to his course. Like, I teach this because I know 1% of you are gonna do that. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. But not everyone can do that. Not everyone can be like Pascal Magne who’s building these massive teeth out of composite that looks so beautiful. That’s not everyday dentistry, I can’t do that. That’s why have a CEREC machine that does it for me, So you it’s just… I’m a regular practitioner, and I think that might be what you said, like, that’s what people kind of gravitate towards. Yeah. Yeah. That’s that’s great, man. And I’ll… And it’s also like, you come in with like a humble spirit too Yeah. Which, you know, there’s a lot of ego in dentistry. There there is definitely a lot of ego in dentistry, man. But yeah, dentistry is one of those things, for me, You will always be humbled in dentistry. Yeah. Yeah. To this day, I still get cases where I’m like, what am I gonna do with this? Yeah. You know? Or, you know, sometimes I like to say the almighty premolar. I go to take out a premolar or bicuspid on somebody, and it should have been a three minute procedure, yet I’m fighting with it for ten… You know, like, what happened? It’s like, so you still get humbled Yeah. Every day in dentistry. And so, one of my favorite sayings in dentistry that I heard was, some days you’re the forcep, some days you’re the tooth. So really realized that, yeah, be humble, because you will get humble. Yeah. Yeah. You you were mentioning a lot of people that you knew, like Mona and… Were one of those doctors, or like Sam Puri? Sam Puri. Yeah, Sam Puri. Was our Chief Clinical Officer, yeah. Yeah. Were… Was that how you heard about Imagen? Or… What brought you to Imagen? What brought me to Imagen in the first place? Yeah. So I’ll I’ll go through that. Because let me let me say this too. You know, fifteen years in is still… I wouldn’t say like you’re on the younger side of dentistry. I’m I’m like… I’m mid career, but I got a long way Yeah. To And so I think there’s a lot of doctors who are not long term. They’re still kind of like, I built this practice, and I’m just gonna keep doing this. But it sounds like you kind of are planning a little bit more for, you know Yeah. You’ve got fifteen years. Yeah. Yeah. You always have to plan for the future, because like I said, I I got two young kids, you know. I I was fortunate with my parents, you know, that I had a fantastic childhood, you know. Shout out to my parents, you know. They they did awesome, had the best, you know, growing up ever. But, you know, still, you know, we were not rich people per se. Yeah. You know, I was lucky enough to get a full ride to undergrad. You know, but dental school, like, I still got… I still had to pay for that. Yeah. I mean, like, there’s student loans, you know. Fortunately, I’ve been fortunate enough to pay those off, you know, over time. But, you know, I got two kids who, right now, both of them say they wanna be dentists, and I know how unlikely that is Yeah. Yeah. Four, you know. But a thought process of mine is, you know, I got to put them through school. Not gonna stick them with the debt of whatever that is gonna be in twenty years’ time. Yeah. You know? I I definitely don’t want that for them. So when I heard about Imagen, I I told you that I bought the office, you know, five and a half years ago Right after COVID. I got none of the PPP help, none of the ERC help. You know, it was just one of those things. It was down the road from our house, and I said, I want it. Let’s do that. And my office manager, Debbie, shout out Debbie, she was very instrumental in that process of me buying that office, because I originally walked away from it. And she brought me back into the opportunity. So shout out to Debbie. But, you know, I saw Imagen basically right after I closed, you know. And, you know, I saw I saw like a Facebook post of the first, you know, seven partners or, you know, and my my wife, you know, shout out my wife, you know, Amanda Ford. She’s she’s the best. She’s wonderful. But she saw that, and she goes, she said, aren’t that… She’s… Aren’t they like your computer dentistry friends? Like, it’s like a… CEREC dentistry? Say you too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, yeah. And she was like… And they just, like, formed a company of, like, their practices? And I was like, yeah. Yeah. Looks like it. And she was she was right then and there, you… She she she saw it in my mind like, yeah, you’re probably headed that way eventually, you know, because I already knew these people and I already respected their business acumen and their clinical acumen. Yeah. And so, you know, it kind of was one of those things that was in the back of my mind. I I talked to some of the people in the company. Clearly, I’m friends with people within the company, and so, you know, maybe it was a year ago, a year and a half ago, somewhere in that range. Early of last year is when, you know, Sam Puri had left CDOCS And, you know, went full time into the clinical operator of our company here, Imagen. He gave me a call, and I I I saw it pop up, and I I immediately knew what that was. Yeah. So I just… I texted him back. He said, let me step outside real quick. You know, he’s… He said, listen, man. Is it is it that time yet? Like, you know, come on. Like, what’s up? And I was like, bring me out here. Let’s talk about it. Yeah. Alright. And so that was kind of the genesis of it. And, you know, when we got here, you know, brought my wife with me. You know, we got home and, you know, we were talking about it. She was like, it does seem very, very stable instead of just being out there on your own. You know, she goes somewhere else, like, yeah, these are all people that I’ve worked with for a long time, at that point about a decade, and so that’s kind of what happened for me. So I I knew what the company was about. I like that we still own a significant part of our operation. I like that I have full clinical autonomy. I like that I can still run the business as I see fit, but I have all of this backing as far as data, as far as, you know, things that they know that actually work within the business that I can actually implement daily, and that’s kind of what what kind of took me in. I became one of those ones. I was like, I knew this is what I wanted to do, you know, just sometimes you just need someone to help guide you in that direction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s great, man. A cool story. You… It’s like, you knew in the back of your head I knew it was one of those things, And then, yeah, finally, once I started kind of going down, I was like, yeah, this is this is what I wanna do, and it’s been it’s been good for us, man. That’s great, man. Yeah. I like being in I like being in business with a lot of my friends, especially. Yeah. Very much so. Right? Much Alright. I have one last question for you. You sound like you got a lot of things that you’re grateful for and happy about. Yeah. Very much. But I would love to know, right now, in this moment, what brings you joy? What brings me joy, man? Just the little stuff, man. Like, me and my wife were talking about this, man. Like, I I came home one day, like, it was like a couple of months ago, man. Actually, you know what, a couple months ago. It was still cold outside, you know. And so I got home late, you know what I mean? I came home, you know, my wife was there, and like my kids were… My son was doing homework at the island in the kitchen. Yeah. You know, my daughter was like coloring. Yeah. Hi dad, what’s going on? It’s both came and gave me a hug. It’s stuff like that. I just like seeing my family happy. So oftentimes in dentistry, man, like I said, sometimes you’re the forcep, sometimes you’re the tooth. Yeah. And those days that you’re the tooth, you know, that can really, really wear on you. But if you take a step back and actually really look at, you know, my family, you know, my life, and how fortunate I actually am, that’s what brings me joy. It’s the little stuff like, I have a house, you know, with a pool. For sure. I got my two kids there. I got my wife. I get to work with my friends and come to places like this. You know what I mean? Like, we get to take a partner trip to see F1. F1 race in in Las Vegas. You know what I mean? There’s things like that. What do I have to honestly be upset about? You know, people have major problems in this world, and when I look at it that way, I really don’t have much to be upset about. Yeah. So I try to focus on the good, the 99% of stuff that is great in my life, I focus on that versus that 1% that is bad. And so if I try to keep that mindset, that’s what makes me happy. That’s what brings me joy, is that my life is really, really good, and all of this stuff just adds to that. There’s been a few times where I come back from, like, a long run, and or I come back from a long day of working, and I have headphones in my ear Ears, and I’ll come home, and like, sometimes I’ll listen to like really beautiful classical music. And I… Like, there’s been a few times where I come home, and this beautiful, like, orchestra is playing or the beautiful, like, strings or piano is playing, and my wife is in the kitchen, and my boys are all sitting at the table, and my daughter’s on the couch, and it’s just, like, I just get hit with, like, this intense feeling of, like, oh my gosh, this is my life. We have in life, a lot of people would be so jealous, and so that’s what I just have to appreciate. You know, like like I said, you know, we live in Union, Kentucky, a nice suburban area. Our grass is green, and you got you got hills and every… What honestly do I have to be upset about? For sure. You know, so I mean, I I let those problems go at the office, and I have everything that I could ever want in this life. So that’s what I focus on. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being on this. No, Thank you all, man. This is awesome, man. So I appreciate you, dude. Yeah. Alright, man. Thank you for taking the time to listen. 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